Suffolk Fire Experience - Doc 396 Knightsbridge Fireman
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Suffuck County Council
County Presonnel Department
Your ref
Our ref PersFile/l/djm2.doc
Ask for Mr D J Morgan Tel(01473) 584102
30 December 1998
Dear Sub Officer X
FIRE SERVICES (DISCIPLINE) REGULATIONS 1985 - CASE 1 – CHARGE: INSUBORDINATION
Further to my faxed letter of the 18 December 1998 to Firefighter M Hyde and my confirmation that, on that date, I had received your list of witnesses, I can now set out below my carefully considered views on the list.
I have taken advice from ACFO K Seager and paid particular attention to para 7 of Annex D of the Guidance Notes to the Regulations and set out below my responses to the 44 (you have repeated 22) potential witnesses. In accordance with the powers given me under the Fire Services (discipline) Regulations 1986 I have decided the following:-
1. Divisional Officer Paul Hayden.
Already listed by management.
Witness allowed.
2. Leading Fireman Stephen Bartram.
Accepted as relevant.
Witness allowed.
3. Deputy Chief Fire Officer Simon Smith.
Accepted as relevant witness.
Witness allowed.
4. Miss Sarah Davies (Brigade Personnel Manager).
Already listed by management.
Witness allowed.
5. Assistant Divisional Officer Paul Seager.
Accepted as a relevant witness.
Witness allowed.
6. Sub Officer Kieron Davey.
Already listed by management.
Witness allowed.
7. Divisional Officer Graham Smith.
Already listed by management.
Witness allowed.
8. Station Officer James Parsons
Already listed by management.
Witness allowed.
9. Divisional Officer Robert Batchelor.
Accepted as a relevant witness.
Witness allowed.
10. Divisional Officer Colin Hodge.
Apart from the fact that he is likely to be the presenting officer he was acting under the instructions from other officers who can be questioned by you.
Witness not allowed.
11. Assistant Divisional Officer Robert Middleton.
I find that this officer has nothing to add to likely evidence.Already listed by management.
Witness not allowed.
12. Assistant Chief Fire Officer Kenneth Seager.
I find that any evidence that this officer could offer would not impact on the evidence surrounding the facts of the case/charge.
Witness not allowed.
13. Assistant Chief Fire Officer Trevor Tinley.
I find him not relevant to the charge.
Witness not allowed.
14. Chief Fire Officer Malcolm Alcock.
I find him not relevant to the charge; speculative request.
Witness not allowed.
15. Sub Officer George Moran.
Matter of fact.
Witness not allowed.
16. Station Officer Graham Saward.
Matter of fact.
Witness not allowed.
17. Leading Firefighter Michael Peaper.
I find him not relevant to the charge.
Witness not allowed.
18. Sub Officer John Tiffen.
Not relevant to the charge.
Witness allowed.
19. Sub Officer Gary Smith.
Not relevant to the charge.
Witness not allowed.
20. Sub officer Peter Redbourn.
Not relevant to the charge in relation to the matter involving ACFO Tinley. However, accepted as a relevant, expert, witness to the circumstances of the charge.
Witness allowed.
21. Sub Officer Henry Landis.
Will simply repeat Sub Officer Redbourn’s evidence.
Witness not allowed.
22. Leading Fireman Southgate.
Will simply repeat Sub Officer Redbourn’s evidence.
Witness not allowed.
23. Sub Officer Chris Wallis.
Accepted as a relevant expert witness.
Witness allowed.
24. Sub Officer Keith Boyce.
Either Wallis or Boyce but not both.
Witness not allowed.
25. Assistant Divisional Officer Fuller.
Accepted as a relevant and expert witness.
Witness allowed.
26. Fireman Terry Austin.
Either Fuller or Austin but not both.
Witness not allowed.
27. Senior Fire Control Officer Parker.
No dispute on evidence.
Witness not allowed.
28. Sub Officer Henry Landis.
Will simply repeat Sub Officer Redbourn’s evidence.
Witness not allowed.
29. Linda Homer (County Council Chief Executive).
Not relevant to the charge.
Witness not allowed.
30. Mr Keith Steven’s (County Secretary & Solicitor)
Not relevant to the charge.
Witness not allowed.
31. D. Matthews (FBU Health & Safety National Officer)
In accordance with para 7b of the Guidance Notes I can invite him to attend through written notice – however, being an “expert witness in the field of Health & Safety” will need to be expanded preferably via a written statement relevant to the case.
Witness allowed.
On the basis of the comments above, five of the people you list (Davies, Davey, Hayden, Parsons & Smith G) will be management witnesses and, with the possible exception of Hayden, will be providing written statements at management’s request.
On your part, and assuming you accept my comments, you will need to consider obtaining statements from Bartram, Hayden, Smithers, Seager P, Batchelor, Redbourn, Wallis (or Boyce), Fuller, (or Austin) and Campion (or Smith).
Please let me have your response to my comments. Any final disagreements on the validity of your witnesses should, I suggest, be a matter for the (Elected members forming the) Disciplinary Tribunal and it may be appropriate for the management case to be presented before any final decisions are made thereon.
At an appropriate juncture I would wish to release the (final) list of your witnesses to the Brigade, not least because time off will need to be arranged, and so I do hope we can resolve any disagreements as soon as possible.
Finally, may I also remind you that a similar list, with justifications, needs to be submitted to me for case 2, certainly, by theend of the calendar year.
Yours sincerely
Dave Morgan
Employee Relations Manager
Suffuck County Council
County Presonnel Department
Your ref
Our ref PersFile/l/djm2.doc
Ask for Mr D J Morgan Tel(01473) 584102
30 December 1998
Dear Sub Officer X
FIRE SERVICES (DISCIPLINE) REGULATIONS 1985 - CASE 1 – CHARGE: INSUBORDINATION
Further to my faxed letter of the 18 December 1998 to Firefighter M Hyde and my confirmation that, on that date, I had received your list of witnesses, I can now set out below my carefully considered views on the list.
I have taken advice from ACFO K Seager and paid particular attention to para 7 of Annex D of the Guidance Notes to the Regulations and set out below my responses to the 44 (you have repeated 22) potential witnesses. In accordance with the powers given me under the Fire Services (discipline) Regulations 1986 I have decided the following:-
1. Divisional Officer Paul Hayden.
Already listed by management.
Witness allowed.
2. Leading Fireman Stephen Bartram.
Accepted as relevant.
Witness allowed.
3. Deputy Chief Fire Officer Simon Smith.
Accepted as relevant witness.
Witness allowed.
4. Miss Sarah Davies (Brigade Personnel Manager).
Already listed by management.
Witness allowed.
5. Assistant Divisional Officer Paul Seager.
Accepted as a relevant witness.
Witness allowed.
6. Sub Officer Kieron Davey.
Already listed by management.
Witness allowed.
7. Divisional Officer Graham Smith.
Already listed by management.
Witness allowed.
8. Station Officer James Parsons
Already listed by management.
Witness allowed.
9. Divisional Officer Robert Batchelor.
Accepted as a relevant witness.
Witness allowed.
10. Divisional Officer Colin Hodge.
Apart from the fact that he is likely to be the presenting officer he was acting under the instructions from other officers who can be questioned by you.
Witness not allowed.
11. Assistant Divisional Officer Robert Middleton.
I find that this officer has nothing to add to likely evidence.Already listed by management.
Witness not allowed.
12. Assistant Chief Fire Officer Kenneth Seager.
I find that any evidence that this officer could offer would not impact on the evidence surrounding the facts of the case/charge.
Witness not allowed.
13. Assistant Chief Fire Officer Trevor Tinley.
I find him not relevant to the charge.
Witness not allowed.
14. Chief Fire Officer Malcolm Alcock.
I find him not relevant to the charge; speculative request.
Witness not allowed.
15. Sub Officer George Moran.
Matter of fact.
Witness not allowed.
16. Station Officer Graham Saward.
Matter of fact.
Witness not allowed.
17. Leading Firefighter Michael Peaper.
I find him not relevant to the charge.
Witness not allowed.
18. Sub Officer John Tiffen.
Not relevant to the charge.
Witness allowed.
19. Sub Officer Gary Smith.
Not relevant to the charge.
Witness not allowed.
20. Sub officer Peter Redbourn.
Not relevant to the charge in relation to the matter involving ACFO Tinley. However, accepted as a relevant, expert, witness to the circumstances of the charge.
Witness allowed.
21. Sub Officer Henry Landis.
Will simply repeat Sub Officer Redbourn’s evidence.
Witness not allowed.
22. Leading Fireman Southgate.
Will simply repeat Sub Officer Redbourn’s evidence.
Witness not allowed.
23. Sub Officer Chris Wallis.
Accepted as a relevant expert witness.
Witness allowed.
24. Sub Officer Keith Boyce.
Either Wallis or Boyce but not both.
Witness not allowed.
25. Assistant Divisional Officer Fuller.
Accepted as a relevant and expert witness.
Witness allowed.
26. Fireman Terry Austin.
Either Fuller or Austin but not both.
Witness not allowed.
27. Senior Fire Control Officer Parker.
No dispute on evidence.
Witness not allowed.
28. Sub Officer Henry Landis.
Will simply repeat Sub Officer Redbourn’s evidence.
Witness not allowed.
29. Linda Homer (County Council Chief Executive).
Not relevant to the charge.
Witness not allowed.
30. Mr Keith Steven’s (County Secretary & Solicitor)
Not relevant to the charge.
Witness not allowed.
31. D. Matthews (FBU Health & Safety National Officer)
In accordance with para 7b of the Guidance Notes I can invite him to attend through written notice – however, being an “expert witness in the field of Health & Safety” will need to be expanded preferably via a written statement relevant to the case.
Witness allowed.
On the basis of the comments above, five of the people you list (Davies, Davey, Hayden, Parsons & Smith G) will be management witnesses and, with the possible exception of Hayden, will be providing written statements at management’s request.
On your part, and assuming you accept my comments, you will need to consider obtaining statements from Bartram, Hayden, Smithers, Seager P, Batchelor, Redbourn, Wallis (or Boyce), Fuller, (or Austin) and Campion (or Smith).
Please let me have your response to my comments. Any final disagreements on the validity of your witnesses should, I suggest, be a matter for the (Elected members forming the) Disciplinary Tribunal and it may be appropriate for the management case to be presented before any final decisions are made thereon.
At an appropriate juncture I would wish to release the (final) list of your witnesses to the Brigade, not least because time off will need to be arranged, and so I do hope we can resolve any disagreements as soon as possible.
Finally, may I also remind you that a similar list, with justifications, needs to be submitted to me for case 2, certainly, by theend of the calendar year.
Yours sincerely
Dave Morgan
Employee Relations Manager
posted by Bert Blythburgh at 7:33 AM
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