The Suffolk Fire Experience - Doc 217 Holbrook Fireman Vacancies
Interested in other Suffolk Firefighter tales then check out “The Suffolk Hyde Affair” at http://thesuffolkhydeaffair.blogspot.com/
Interview with Sub O. Wigglesworth Continued
Tuesday 18th August 1998
Page 5 Continued from Doc 215
Sub O Wigglesworth
To add further to that point. The regs, it makes great use of the expression “reasonable time off” so one day in 12 moths would, I assume, be felt to be very reasonable. To perform one’s health and safety functions. I assume that you knew that was the first day I have taken in 12 months from the local investigation?
DO Hodge
Did you, in your view, comply with the requirements of paragraph 14.1 (I) “The safety represntative will be required to give reasonable notice of requirements for time off where practicable, and in normal circumstances OBTAIN THE PRIOR APPROVAL of the County Fire officer.”
Sub O Wigglesworth
The circumstances were that I was informed at short notice of the meeting. I couldn’t have responded any quicker in my actions.
Page 6
DO Hodge
Did you obtain prior approval to attend that meeting from anyone in authority in Suffolk fire Service?
Sub O Wigglesworth
It would have been impossible to get prior approval because there was nobody in the office available, particularly that week when there was no management for vast chunks of the week on the station. I refer to my immediate line managers, and even when available were generally unapproachable!
DO Hodge
Would you like to be more specific on that last comment?
Sub O Wigglesworth
Not really because approachable is a very good description.
DO Hodge
Did you attempt in any way to contact T/DO Hayden to obtain approval?
Sub O Wigglesworth
It was mentioned on the 4th August before tea break prior to a meeting Mr. Hayden had with Sub O Marris and before he was hurriedly requested to HQ by the CFO secretary to an unscheduled meeting. With regrad to the 5th I was in at my workplace at 0830 to load the poxy band boxes and left the workplace after 1700.
DO Hodge
“It was mentioned?” Did you mention it to T/DO Hayden.
Sub O Wigglesworth
Yes.
DO Hodge
I am now going to move on to Thursday 6th August 1998.
You submitted a written leave request to S/O Parsons, which was dated the 5th August 1998 (a Wednesday), for leave on the 6th august ( a Thursday). When did you submit that application and where did you put the leave request?
Note: DO Hodge shows Sub O Wigglesworth the leave request memorandum.
Sub O Wigglesworth
That was submitted the day before, the 5th August 1998, with also the one for the 12th.
DO Hodge
Can you expand on that?
Sub O Wigglesworth
Separate memos, both put in together.
DO Hodge
Where did you leave that leave request.
Sub O Wigglesworth
On S/O Parsons desk for normal attention.
DO Hodge
At what time?
Sub O Wigglesworth
Late afternoon.
Page 7
DO Hodge
Did you get the request approved?
Sub O Wigglesworth
Well. Approved? As far as I am concerned I went through procedures according to the circumstances that required the leave to be taken at short notice. No other officer from the deaprtment available to take the request.
DO Hodge
You were requested by S/O Parsons to attend a meeting at BHQ on Thursday 6th August. I am aware that S/O Parsons made this request to you in writing in a memorandum dated 14th July, 1998.
Note: DO Hodge shows memo dated 14th July 1998 to Sub O Wigglesworth.
DO Hodge
Were you aware of the memorandum.
Sub O Wigglesworth
Yes.
DO Hodge
I also understand you took this memo to S/O Parsons when you received it and discussed it with him. Is this correct.
Sub O Wigglesworth
Yes.
DO Hodge
Why did you choose to disobey this order, because that is what it was, and not attend that meeting in Ipswich?
Sub O Wigglesworth
I refer you back to my original satement at the beginning of the interview.
DO Hodge
Did you get approval from any one in authority not to attend that meeting in Ipswich?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No.
DO Hodge
Did you make any attempt to get approval from anyone not to attend that meeting in Ipswich?
Sub O Wigglesworth
In my analysis, my sort of attendance I judged was not very valid. I don’t think my attendance at a meeting that I had no input into or perceived worthiness by myself would make one iota of difference. Especially in consideration of the circumstances outlined in my opening statement.
Can you confirm that the meeting was cancelled?
DO Hodge
No. I cannot confirm that.
Sub O Wigglesworth
I can, I have seen it on the screen, the officepower e.mail system.
Page 8
DO Hodge
Do you still not think it would have been correct to obtain prior approval not to have attended this meeting?
Sub O Wigglesworth
I think it would be better if we had an officer on duty in the department full time.
DO Hodge
DO Hayden looked on S/O Parsons desk on Thursday 6th August in the morning, for something else. He did not see your letter on the desk.
Sub O Wigglesworth
He is a liar!! Because I was in here at 0900 that morning to use the fax machine.
DO Hodge
I have no further questions to ask. Do you wish to make a further statement?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No.)….. 23 minutes 897 words = 39 per min)
Interview terminated 12. 13 hours on the 18th August 1998.
Note: A copy of DO Smith’s transcribed notes and a copy DO smith’s copy of the questions used by me was made and handed to Sub O Wigglesworth immediately following the interview.
I CERTIFY THAT THIS IS A TRUE AND ACCURATE RECORD OF AN INTERVIEW OF SUB O WIGGLESWORTH AT 11.00 HOURS ON TUESDAY 18TH AUGUST 1998.
C F Hodge Signed CF Hodge Date 17th September 1998
GD Smith Signed GD Smith Date 17/9/98
AD Wigglesworth Signed……………………Date……………………………….
Interview with Sub O. Wigglesworth Continued
Tuesday 18th August 1998
Page 5 Continued from Doc 215
Sub O Wigglesworth
To add further to that point. The regs, it makes great use of the expression “reasonable time off” so one day in 12 moths would, I assume, be felt to be very reasonable. To perform one’s health and safety functions. I assume that you knew that was the first day I have taken in 12 months from the local investigation?
DO Hodge
Did you, in your view, comply with the requirements of paragraph 14.1 (I) “The safety represntative will be required to give reasonable notice of requirements for time off where practicable, and in normal circumstances OBTAIN THE PRIOR APPROVAL of the County Fire officer.”
Sub O Wigglesworth
The circumstances were that I was informed at short notice of the meeting. I couldn’t have responded any quicker in my actions.
Page 6
DO Hodge
Did you obtain prior approval to attend that meeting from anyone in authority in Suffolk fire Service?
Sub O Wigglesworth
It would have been impossible to get prior approval because there was nobody in the office available, particularly that week when there was no management for vast chunks of the week on the station. I refer to my immediate line managers, and even when available were generally unapproachable!
DO Hodge
Would you like to be more specific on that last comment?
Sub O Wigglesworth
Not really because approachable is a very good description.
DO Hodge
Did you attempt in any way to contact T/DO Hayden to obtain approval?
Sub O Wigglesworth
It was mentioned on the 4th August before tea break prior to a meeting Mr. Hayden had with Sub O Marris and before he was hurriedly requested to HQ by the CFO secretary to an unscheduled meeting. With regrad to the 5th I was in at my workplace at 0830 to load the poxy band boxes and left the workplace after 1700.
DO Hodge
“It was mentioned?” Did you mention it to T/DO Hayden.
Sub O Wigglesworth
Yes.
DO Hodge
I am now going to move on to Thursday 6th August 1998.
You submitted a written leave request to S/O Parsons, which was dated the 5th August 1998 (a Wednesday), for leave on the 6th august ( a Thursday). When did you submit that application and where did you put the leave request?
Note: DO Hodge shows Sub O Wigglesworth the leave request memorandum.
Sub O Wigglesworth
That was submitted the day before, the 5th August 1998, with also the one for the 12th.
DO Hodge
Can you expand on that?
Sub O Wigglesworth
Separate memos, both put in together.
DO Hodge
Where did you leave that leave request.
Sub O Wigglesworth
On S/O Parsons desk for normal attention.
DO Hodge
At what time?
Sub O Wigglesworth
Late afternoon.
Page 7
DO Hodge
Did you get the request approved?
Sub O Wigglesworth
Well. Approved? As far as I am concerned I went through procedures according to the circumstances that required the leave to be taken at short notice. No other officer from the deaprtment available to take the request.
DO Hodge
You were requested by S/O Parsons to attend a meeting at BHQ on Thursday 6th August. I am aware that S/O Parsons made this request to you in writing in a memorandum dated 14th July, 1998.
Note: DO Hodge shows memo dated 14th July 1998 to Sub O Wigglesworth.
DO Hodge
Were you aware of the memorandum.
Sub O Wigglesworth
Yes.
DO Hodge
I also understand you took this memo to S/O Parsons when you received it and discussed it with him. Is this correct.
Sub O Wigglesworth
Yes.
DO Hodge
Why did you choose to disobey this order, because that is what it was, and not attend that meeting in Ipswich?
Sub O Wigglesworth
I refer you back to my original satement at the beginning of the interview.
DO Hodge
Did you get approval from any one in authority not to attend that meeting in Ipswich?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No.
DO Hodge
Did you make any attempt to get approval from anyone not to attend that meeting in Ipswich?
Sub O Wigglesworth
In my analysis, my sort of attendance I judged was not very valid. I don’t think my attendance at a meeting that I had no input into or perceived worthiness by myself would make one iota of difference. Especially in consideration of the circumstances outlined in my opening statement.
Can you confirm that the meeting was cancelled?
DO Hodge
No. I cannot confirm that.
Sub O Wigglesworth
I can, I have seen it on the screen, the officepower e.mail system.
Page 8
DO Hodge
Do you still not think it would have been correct to obtain prior approval not to have attended this meeting?
Sub O Wigglesworth
I think it would be better if we had an officer on duty in the department full time.
DO Hodge
DO Hayden looked on S/O Parsons desk on Thursday 6th August in the morning, for something else. He did not see your letter on the desk.
Sub O Wigglesworth
He is a liar!! Because I was in here at 0900 that morning to use the fax machine.
DO Hodge
I have no further questions to ask. Do you wish to make a further statement?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No.)….. 23 minutes 897 words = 39 per min)
Interview terminated 12. 13 hours on the 18th August 1998.
Note: A copy of DO Smith’s transcribed notes and a copy DO smith’s copy of the questions used by me was made and handed to Sub O Wigglesworth immediately following the interview.
I CERTIFY THAT THIS IS A TRUE AND ACCURATE RECORD OF AN INTERVIEW OF SUB O WIGGLESWORTH AT 11.00 HOURS ON TUESDAY 18TH AUGUST 1998.
C F Hodge Signed CF Hodge Date 17th September 1998
GD Smith Signed GD Smith Date 17/9/98
AD Wigglesworth Signed……………………Date……………………………….
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