The SFE - Doc 111Saxmundham Fire Station
CONFIDENTIAL
TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW (Produced from handwritten notes)
Date of Interview: 2nd July 1998
Time of Interview: 10 . 30 hours
Location: Fire Safety ADOs Office at Normanshurst
Present: DO Hodge and ADO Middleton Investigating Officers
Sub O Wigglesworth M Hyde (Representative Body)
Do Hodge
I confirm that we are investigating “The circumstances of the near miss reported by you on Wednesday 3rd June 1998”, and that we are not investigating or dealing with your grievance over the issue of your sick pay.
I would like to tape record the interview in line with Brigade Policy. Do you object to the interview being recorded?
Sub O Wigglesworth
Yes. I would like the tape recording equipment removed from the room.
DO Hodge
There will be a transcript made of the interview which ADO Middleton will take long hand. I am now going to caution you.
“You do not have to say anything, or answer any of the questions put to you at this interview unless you wish to do so, but what you say will be taken down in writing and may be used in a subsequent disciplinary hearing. Do you understand the caution?”
Sub O Wigglesworth
Yes I understand the caution.
DO hodge I have a number of questions I would like to ask of you, and you also have the opportunity to make a statement should you so wish. Is there anything you would like to say at this stage?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No.
DO Hodge
Can you state when you received the letter, which was addressed to you at home, reference HR/SD/CAB, dated the 29th May 1998, a Friday, and signed by Sarah Davies, Human Resources Manager?
(Copy of Letter shown to Sub O Wigglesworth)
Sub O Wigglesworth
No.
DO Hodge
This was presumably at approximately 14.30 on the 3rd June 1998, a Wednesday, as stated on near miss form?
Sub O Wigglesworth
Don’t know.
DO Hodge
Can you confirm you received the letter?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
You were advised in that letter that “should you wish to make representation you may do so through the grievance procedure” – yet you choose not to do so – at that time. Would you like to explain why?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
Did you take advice from anyone over how to make representation against this decision? The decision referred to being that of the Brigade to stop your sick pay or at least part of it.
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
Did you discuss the matter with your line manager? Was he available?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
Do Hodge
I understand that you telephoned Sarah Davies on Wednesday 3rd June 1998?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
Were you on duty on the 3rd June?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
Did she, S Davies, again advise you to pursue the matter using the grievance procedure?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
On the 4th June you completed a “report of near miss/hazardous situations form” at Normanshurst, and also telephoned the near miss through to Brigade Control?
Why did you decide this, the near miss procedure, was the mechanism to use, when you had been advised on two occasions that the Grievance Procedure was the appropriate mechanism to use to appeal against the DCFO’s ruling?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
Your own wording on the near miss form specifies “Pre mediatated harassment…” – why then did you not use the appropriate “Harassment Procedure” rather than the near miss procedure, taken that you had already decided not to use the grievance procedure?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
Are you aware of the Brigade and County’s “Harassment Procedure?”
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
Have you ever filled in a “near miss” report before?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
Are you aware in what circumstances the “near miss” procedure is designed to be used in?
What are these circumstances?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
Did you read the appropriate Health and safety note, HS05 or the “Guidance Notes” before completing the near miss form?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
The letter you received from the Human resources Manager, Sarah Davies, dated the 29th May, was headed CONFIDENTIAL. As far as you are aware has this “confidentiality” been maintained between you and Sarah Davies, accepting that this letter was copied to two others?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
Have you copied this letter to anyone?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
Is there anything you would like to add or clarify, or would you like to make a statement?
Mr Hyde
We would like an adjournment.
(At this stage Sub O Wigglesworth and Mr Hyde left the room for approximately one minute before returning)
Mr Hyde
Can you furnish me with a copy of the questions asked?
DO Hodge
No certainly not. You will get a copy of the transcript of the interview, but it will be sent to Sub O wigglesworth.
Sub O Wigglesworth
There are some questions I would like to ask you. Who has made the complain against me?
DO Hodge
I am not going to answer any of your questions. I am investigating the circumstances specified in the Regulation & letter.
Sub O Wigglesworth
Can you give me a summary of what’s happened in the last three weeks since I have been of?
DO Hodge
I am not here to answer your questions
Sub O Wigglesworth
I would like to ask you some questions on the Employment Rights Act, 1996 and wages act 1986?
DO Hodge
I am not answering any questions.
Sub O Wigglesworth
You may not wish to answer my question, but may have to act. The situation which has developed are an unlawful act. I would like you to investigate it and this is an official request.
DO Hodge
Who do you mean by “you”.
Sub O Wigglesworth
The ball is in your court
DO Hodge
Is there anything else you would like to add?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No
I CERTIFY THAT THIS IS A TRUE AND ACCURATE RECORD OF AN INTERVIEW OF SUB O WIGGLESWORTH AT 10.30 HOURS ON THURSDAY 2ND JULY 1998.
Signed CF Hodge 4/7/98
Signed RJ Middleton 2/7/98
Sub Officer Wigglesworth and Firefighter M Hyde refused to sign the transcript as they considered its editing rendered the document inaccurate.
TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW (Produced from handwritten notes)
Date of Interview: 2nd July 1998
Time of Interview: 10 . 30 hours
Location: Fire Safety ADOs Office at Normanshurst
Present: DO Hodge and ADO Middleton Investigating Officers
Sub O Wigglesworth M Hyde (Representative Body)
Do Hodge
I confirm that we are investigating “The circumstances of the near miss reported by you on Wednesday 3rd June 1998”, and that we are not investigating or dealing with your grievance over the issue of your sick pay.
I would like to tape record the interview in line with Brigade Policy. Do you object to the interview being recorded?
Sub O Wigglesworth
Yes. I would like the tape recording equipment removed from the room.
DO Hodge
There will be a transcript made of the interview which ADO Middleton will take long hand. I am now going to caution you.
“You do not have to say anything, or answer any of the questions put to you at this interview unless you wish to do so, but what you say will be taken down in writing and may be used in a subsequent disciplinary hearing. Do you understand the caution?”
Sub O Wigglesworth
Yes I understand the caution.
DO hodge I have a number of questions I would like to ask of you, and you also have the opportunity to make a statement should you so wish. Is there anything you would like to say at this stage?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No.
DO Hodge
Can you state when you received the letter, which was addressed to you at home, reference HR/SD/CAB, dated the 29th May 1998, a Friday, and signed by Sarah Davies, Human Resources Manager?
(Copy of Letter shown to Sub O Wigglesworth)
Sub O Wigglesworth
No.
DO Hodge
This was presumably at approximately 14.30 on the 3rd June 1998, a Wednesday, as stated on near miss form?
Sub O Wigglesworth
Don’t know.
DO Hodge
Can you confirm you received the letter?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
You were advised in that letter that “should you wish to make representation you may do so through the grievance procedure” – yet you choose not to do so – at that time. Would you like to explain why?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
Did you take advice from anyone over how to make representation against this decision? The decision referred to being that of the Brigade to stop your sick pay or at least part of it.
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
Did you discuss the matter with your line manager? Was he available?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
Do Hodge
I understand that you telephoned Sarah Davies on Wednesday 3rd June 1998?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
Were you on duty on the 3rd June?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
Did she, S Davies, again advise you to pursue the matter using the grievance procedure?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
On the 4th June you completed a “report of near miss/hazardous situations form” at Normanshurst, and also telephoned the near miss through to Brigade Control?
Why did you decide this, the near miss procedure, was the mechanism to use, when you had been advised on two occasions that the Grievance Procedure was the appropriate mechanism to use to appeal against the DCFO’s ruling?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
Your own wording on the near miss form specifies “Pre mediatated harassment…” – why then did you not use the appropriate “Harassment Procedure” rather than the near miss procedure, taken that you had already decided not to use the grievance procedure?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
Are you aware of the Brigade and County’s “Harassment Procedure?”
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
Have you ever filled in a “near miss” report before?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
Are you aware in what circumstances the “near miss” procedure is designed to be used in?
What are these circumstances?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
Did you read the appropriate Health and safety note, HS05 or the “Guidance Notes” before completing the near miss form?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
The letter you received from the Human resources Manager, Sarah Davies, dated the 29th May, was headed CONFIDENTIAL. As far as you are aware has this “confidentiality” been maintained between you and Sarah Davies, accepting that this letter was copied to two others?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
Have you copied this letter to anyone?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No comment.
DO Hodge
Is there anything you would like to add or clarify, or would you like to make a statement?
Mr Hyde
We would like an adjournment.
(At this stage Sub O Wigglesworth and Mr Hyde left the room for approximately one minute before returning)
Mr Hyde
Can you furnish me with a copy of the questions asked?
DO Hodge
No certainly not. You will get a copy of the transcript of the interview, but it will be sent to Sub O wigglesworth.
Sub O Wigglesworth
There are some questions I would like to ask you. Who has made the complain against me?
DO Hodge
I am not going to answer any of your questions. I am investigating the circumstances specified in the Regulation & letter.
Sub O Wigglesworth
Can you give me a summary of what’s happened in the last three weeks since I have been of?
DO Hodge
I am not here to answer your questions
Sub O Wigglesworth
I would like to ask you some questions on the Employment Rights Act, 1996 and wages act 1986?
DO Hodge
I am not answering any questions.
Sub O Wigglesworth
You may not wish to answer my question, but may have to act. The situation which has developed are an unlawful act. I would like you to investigate it and this is an official request.
DO Hodge
Who do you mean by “you”.
Sub O Wigglesworth
The ball is in your court
DO Hodge
Is there anything else you would like to add?
Sub O Wigglesworth
No
I CERTIFY THAT THIS IS A TRUE AND ACCURATE RECORD OF AN INTERVIEW OF SUB O WIGGLESWORTH AT 10.30 HOURS ON THURSDAY 2ND JULY 1998.
Signed CF Hodge 4/7/98
Signed RJ Middleton 2/7/98
Sub Officer Wigglesworth and Firefighter M Hyde refused to sign the transcript as they considered its editing rendered the document inaccurate.
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